Ecospheres

[furtech]

Darn it! I really wanted to get another ecosphere , but this site (about pet shrimp) claims that the shrimp are slowly dying, not surviving in a balanced environment.

So, who's right?!?

I had one a few years ago and the shrimp actually grew noticeably over the year+ that I had it (broken in a house-cleaning mishap-- became the "Ghettosphere" at Casa Zor). So I'm not sure who's right.

Any opinions?

Comments

[foxfeather.livejournal.com]

I've always wanted one of those!

The site seems a bit extreme, the shrimp seem to be going on with their daily activities and even breeding on occasion, it doesn't seem like they are being tortured. On occasion in the wild they end up in small ponds where they dry up mostly and have to live in much nastier conditions and still do. Though they do definitely have a truncated lifespan in captivity.

I have some algae-eating shrimp in my planted aquarium that have lived five years and don't seem like they'll ever die - so it is true they can have really long lifespans and never live so long in ecospheres.
But are they really suffering in an ecosphere? Probably not. If the waste buildup is too much for the plant material to handle and it's unbalanced inside, they could sustain organ/tissue damage over years and technically that could cause pain, but shrimp nervous systems don't seem to deal with pain like we would. So!

[furtech.livejournal.com]

I appreciate the feedback! The site does strike me as a little extreme--like they're trying too hard to sell their case (ie, skewing the situation as to leave -no- room for the possibility that they could be wrong). If nothing else, this eases guilt pangs. Thanks!

[brokkentwolf.livejournal.com]

Well, I hate to give you the wishy-washy answer but it's a die-roll. It's very hard to control a closed system. On the one hand, you need enough light to propel the algal growth that feed the shrimp, on the other hand, you need to control things like temperature and gas exchange. Too MUCH light and you could get an algal bloom that will smother the life out of the entire system INCLUDING the algae. I would say that if you DO intend to buy one of these that you go with the largest one since larger bodies tend to reach homeostasis easier than the smaller ones. Good luck with it. :)

[furtech.livejournal.com]

Actually, it isn't that hard to maintain the balance: when the algea started to get anemic-looking, I'd put it on the kitchen counter for a few days and it'd get healthy and green again. Too green and a few weeks in the computer room would make the algea less robust.

Good advice on size of globe!

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

It's a shrimp.

Being cruel to a dog or cat? Crime and tragedy. But that's because dogs and cats feel emotions. They suffer. Shrimp barely even have nervous systems. I would buy an ecosphere without any qualms whatsoever.

Also, that site contradicts itself.

"The little algae they find in the container lacks in nutritional value and is just not enough to keep these shrimp alive for long."

"It is a typical algae and aufwuchs eating shrimp, which should be fed very sparingly once the tank is established and has algae growing in it. I only add some finely ground flake food only if I feel that the algae are depleted."

So... they starve if there's only algae to eat, but you don't need to feed them anything else, so long as they have algae? Which is it?

And

"The truth is that these shrimp are slowly *starving to death*, *suffocating* and being *poisoned* in those containers, due to lack of food and oxygen, and the accumulation of shrimp waste."

"Water changes do not seem to be necessary for this species as my population has been breeding in water that has not been changed in over a year."

So do they need to have fresh water and their waste removed periodically, as that first line suggests, or don't they?

[furtech.livejournal.com]

Good point on the contradictions! That's one of the things that has me doubting the absolute certainty of the site's owner.

As for a shrimp isn't a cat or a dog-- I'd still feel guilty. I suppose I have unresolved issues somewhere.

[coyoty.livejournal.com]

The point of an Ecosphere is you don't change the water or add food. That will kill the shrimp. Ecospheres are designed to be balanced environments that only need controlled light and temperature to survive. It's not a fish bowl, and trying to open it to save the shrimp from dying of starvation and asphyxiation is like taking fish out of water to save them from drowning.

I had a thriving five-inch sphere for over two years, until I accidentally smashed it with a coffee cup. I haven't been able to afford replacing it yet.

[tsukinobara.livejournal.com]

I bought one of those for my step-mom a long time ago. The shrimp in hers lasted about 3 years.

[furtech.livejournal.com]

Cool-- she must have taken good care of it! A lot of people apparently just shove it to a corner of their desk after a month or so and while the spheres don't need a lot of attention, they do require one to monitor them. Three years is -very- good!

[tcreynolds]

If the shrimp grew, then there's no problem. That website says that shrimp that are being poisoned shrink every time they molt, so...

[furtech.livejournal.com]

That's another issue I have with the site, because I -know- my shrimp grew.

[coyoty.livejournal.com]

Shrimp molt because they're getting too big for their exoskeletons. Growing shrimp don't shrink.

[camstone.livejournal.com]

Torture? No... viable over thousands of years? Greatly depends on how well they got the "mix" right... But in general, I'd think they must be doing something right since they survive for what seems to be decades with very little need (perhaps some sunlight for the alge to grow.) It's sort of like being in my cubicle in the office, now that I think about it...

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

that website bugs me

"Unfortunately, more than 90% of this species' habitats in Hawaii have been destroyed by development, and although this species is not listed as endangered (yet) it should be considered endangered for all practical purposes. Hence, the purchase of wild-caught animals should be avoided at all cost." is a bit dumb. Shrimp habitat destruction is what is threatening the species, not harvest. In actualy fact, maybe sustainible use of wild shrimp would encourage the PRESERVATION of their habitat; most of the semi natural woodland in the UK for example, is only there because it was reserved for the king and his buddies to hunt in.

If your shrimp was growing, it probably had plenty of food. Unless this person can provide me with some well controlled time course experiments measuring the shrinkage of shrimp over time in a sealed environment, with proper work ups of carbon cycling and fixation, I'd take what they say with a oinch of salt.

ahem, anyway.

I say go for it. Like bladespark said, it's a shrimp, a pretty simple invertebrate. Seamonkies and Triops aren't being "tortured".

[furtech.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I forgot that you would probably have a good perspective on this (not your specialty, but still in the right scientific ballpark). I -really- appreciate you dialing in on this!

[moonstone-wind.livejournal.com]

heck thats nice looking but a bit costly to me ... but I loved seeing it ty!

[furtech.livejournal.com]

Considering what I'd spend on even a simple tropical tank, they're not so bad, price-wise. Low-maintenance, interesting and alive. I'd even named the ones I previously had.

[moonstone-wind.livejournal.com]

Good point on that. Id love one but just cant justify the price but gosh there neat looking. Maby I could ask for a small one for my birthday XD

[coyoty.livejournal.com]

I just remembered that the first sphere I had, before I upgraded it, had snails in it to keep the glass from filming up. They were as interesting as the shrimp and would do things like crawl across the underside of the water surface tension, and sometimes did sommersaults across the glass and water surfaces. Being snails, though, they did reproduce readily and I think that's why they were removed from later spheres.