furtech | “Doodles” is a two-faced piece of cr*p.

Current Mood: angry

“Doodles” is a two-faced piece of cr*p.

I've been crazy-busy with work, but today is my last day off (as it were) for a while. Sorry that my first post in a few days was a venting of live steam, but this made me angry enough to take the time to deal with it.

I was recently pointed to a mockery site (SA) where our pal,

doodlesthegreat aka “Doodles” has been showing his true colors: that of a lying hypocrite—the type of two-faced bastard who pledges his friendship and loyalty to his “friends”, then turns around and not only mocks them behind their backs but does so in a nasty, mean-spirited way.

At conventions and with his fannish friends, he is everyone’s buddy, bragging about being one of the founding members of furry fandom. He loudly decries any person or group who would dare to make fun of these same fans. And then… he goes to the mainstream hate/mockery groups and feeds them info and links and posts *copyrighted images* to show those people what freaks we are.

In order to divert his obvious involvement, he claims to be a mole, spying and collecting freakiness for benefit and elucidation of SA and other groups. “Naturally, I’ve been collecting these [images] for a while” he says when someone on SA asks for images of furry nastiness so that said person can destroy the reputation of a person he’s taken a disliking to.

So who pipes up to deliver to them a number of images? Doodles. Not only that, but he posts images of people he professes friendship to! He’s put up pics of one of Dia’s costumes, one of mine and the art of an artist he claims close friendship to (a picture of a warrior riding a gryphon—a beautiful piece with no adult content). So not only is he back-stabbing the fandom, he’s doing it to his *friends*!

Here’s what takes the cake: Doodles is the poster boy for what these groups portray the fandom as: a grub-like plump of a man-boy who drools over porn and has no fashion sense or social clue. HE EVEN LIVES WITH HIS MOTHER! How “get a life” can you be?!? *cough* loser! *cough*

[fyi: The posts I’m referring to appeared on SA on 2/11/04: I have screen grabs of some of the posts if anyone needs hard proof to see that this really happened]

Doodles—Don’t even THINK of greeting me in the hall or doing your two-faced act anywhere near me. If you do, I will tell you EXACTLY what I think of you. Loudly.

EDIT: this thread is closed. Please do not comment here. Take it to email or your own journal-- thanks.

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...my anonymous poster as a fine example of the sort of ilk that prevades fandom. The anonymous coward.

This is Dave Kuhn and if you've got a problem with me, have the courage to say it to my face. I can be reached at: dkuhn@socal.rr.com.

Likewise for Shawn: kimba@socal.rr.com

Although your retort is appreciated, it is not factual. It does not follow that anonymity is equivalent with cowardice. Benjamin Franklin himself accomplished many worthy goals while posting anonymously, although I will grant you that there are miriad others out there who might fit your claim.
Yet even though you and Shawn are extremely talented artists, and I mean that sincerely, there is nothing whatsoever to be accomplished by following your cue, other than your being able to add another notch to your list of upcoming parodies or the like.
The posting was made simply to agree in concept, that it is hypocritical for someone (like doodles, as furtech points out) to embrace friends publically and habits privately with one hand, which they then turn and discredit or lampoon with the other hand.

Well, I'll bite: what "worthy" goal were you trying to accomplish with
anonymous mudslinging?

While your efforts to follow in the footsteps of Franklin are noble, you'll note that two of the most important documents that bear his name (The Declaration of Indpendence and The Constitution) were not signed "anonymous" -- and he had considerably more at stake by putting his name to them.

It seems that you are perhaps your own best example of what you profess to hate Doodles for: someone who is only willing to throw stones when it can be done without fear of retribution. That defines a coward pretty well to me.

My proposal is that, if you feel I've wronged you either directly or indirectly, contact me in private and we'll discuss it civilly. I think you'll find I'm a reasonable person when confronted in such a manner. If I've inadvertently offended you, you have my apology. If you want to continue name-calling without even providing any examples of what has been done to you, you are indeed the kind of fear-biting backstabber you claim to hate.

You're baiting me, Dave ;)
Since you asked, my intention was only to agree with Furtech and Penh, that the practices of playing two sides is generally deplorable.
Furtech and others have made the point that Doodles does this, and Penh mentioned that it would add Doodles to a list which already included SK, and possible you also. This is where I agreed. Many people have come to this conclusion, since you and he enjoy and live many of the very things that you lampoon, but seem to pretend to have no affinity for at all.
While pulling the finger at fursuiters and others who enjoy furry art, you both enjoy your fursuits and have the same sort of art on walls that surround you, just like the people being ridiculed in your comic and your gossip. The only difference seems to be that you and SK are pretty and never fart, while the people you depict are shown as being not nearly as perfect or superhuman.

I was simply adding support to this, with a small anonymous hand clap or two.

As for goals, this entire thread and post is perhaps intended basically to express opinions and be mutually supportive, relaying our experiences with these types of people.

You make an interesting point about Franklin, but this is not as much about what there is to lose, as about what there is to gain.
It would appear you seek to gain knowledge about a single indentity. You do not reply to the other's posts. You already know who they are. You are done with adding them to your list. I assert that our intentions are quite different, as the goal of this thread is to share experiences and support, while yours is to attain a name.
I am not seeking a gain. Anonymity is satisfied with saving a life and expecting no reward, or leaving an estate to charity, without a name attached. It isn't about gain or cowardice, but if that isn't clear by now, I do not suspect I could explain it to you.

While you make an apology, and I'd like to accept it, I cannot be certain it's sincere. I've never heard any admission of remorse or enlightenment based on any questions to you or SK, merely asking, "why?". You and he have each other, and had many friends. Why can't you just live and let live? That is one point we all wonder. Instead it has only appeared that you defend your stances, and seek to add another notch to your billiard scores.

I suggest you not be as concerned with me, as with the bridges burning. If ever you discover the essence of why people are hurt by what you do, and endeavor to change, that would be a better goal that apologizing to one person. And if you and SK ever explain yourselves effectively, I might reconsider, but all indications thus far suggest that you are fine with your karma, and more than happy to follow the path you've chosen.

Au revoir.

Look, if I really didn't give a damn about people's feelings or their thoughts I wouldn't be writing this. Furthermore, I'm speaking for myself here, not in defense or support of Shawn or his actions. Shawn is my friend, but I'm not his apologist nor do I agree or take part in everything he does. Your willingness to lump me in with "these types of people" without the benefit of even discussing your problems with me shows the same kind of stereotyping and closemindedness that you complain Shawn's comic is guilty of with respect to the furries.

I don't know how you've reached the conclusion that I have some kind of hyprocritical hatred of furry art or costumes. I've made my living drawing animal characters and there's nothing I've drawn I haven't hung on my wall at work. I've also brought in my costumes to work. If I felt such distaste towards such things, I would stop going to furry conventions. I exhibited my art at Further Confusion this year and donated the sale of one piece to charity. I also spoke on a panel at FC several years ago on how to prepare a portfolio and, last year, I contributed to Toby Bluth and John Nunnemacher's animation panel. None of that seems to jibe with your contention that I somehow hold myself "above" other people in fandom.

What I *do* hate about furry fandom is the level of grade school politics and cliqueishness, which is amply demonstrated in this thread. If there's anything that makes me want to distance myself from the fandom, it's that and not the art or costumes.

You accusation that I don't respond to the other's posts is incorrect. I wrote to Furtech, Penh and Custer in e-mail because I think this is the sort of thing best discussed in private. I did not add them to any "list" for retribution. I tried to discuss the matter in a civil fashion and possibly resolve some misconceptions on both sides. Which is the whole point of asking your identity: I would like to try to do something contructive and lessen the amount of grief flying around, not increase it. If you're that frightened of some kind of asinine "revenge" scheme or you doubt my sincerity, fer chrissakes create a hotmail account or disguise your identity in some way. All I'm asking you to do is talk about what the problem is and see if there's some way of patching things up or at least reaching a point where finger-pointing and name-calling isn't necessary especially *years* after the fact.

I'm sorry that Shawn's comic hurt people. Some of those people like Tracy and Jimmy and Croc and Brian and Mitch I've spoken to. I have tried to offer enlightenment, as you call it, to the degree that's possible, but I can't excuse actions that were't mine or be held accountable for them. That's why I suggest if you want answers on what Shawn's done, you ask Shawn. I can only answer for myself and I'll be happy to address your specific problems with *me* and how I've hurt you. You ask me to explain myself effectively and I'm willing to do just that, but I can't respond let alone change based on vague, nebulous or false accusations. If you're unwilling to talk to me, even through a disguised address, we can talk here, although I don't think it's the best way to handle it (and Furtech would probably appreciate we take it somewhere other than his LiveJournal.)

If you have have no desire to do this, but prefer to cling to your antimosity, then this thread really isn't about being "mutually supportive" and "relaying [your] experiences with these types of people" is it? It's about continuing to blindly hate in the face of someone saying "hey, let's try to talk this out." And how does that make you any better than the people you berate?

-- Dave

You've made your case quite plausible with this comment, and I thank you for it.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and I also offer my unequivocal and complete apology for lumping you in with Shawn. It's true my assumption was that you might have more influence on each other's thoughts and actions. I've been just shocked beyond belief that this all happened, and seeing the intense hurt in so many undeserving people did skew my view somewhat.
If you say you are not party to his derisions, I will accept that. And stating it here as you have is far more valuable than through any Hotmail discussion, which would essentially be no less anonymous than this medium.

I'm truly sorry.

And thank you Furtech, for indulging this discussion.

This thread is officially closed. I thought it was over yesterday or I'd've closed it then.

So I can assure you Shawn Keller is not an asshole. 20 years in the Army didn't make me a nice person, and my current job actually encourages me to be even worse. I have spent my life surrounded by liars, cheaters, thieves and backstabbers. I have survived 22 years of federal service only because I can spot these people coming.

Several people have met Mr. Keller in person, in awe of his artistic and costuming abilitites, and desperately wanting the status of being his friend. He is polite and diplomatic enough in person that a fair number of people come away thinking they have achieved that status when in fact they have merely become acquaintances. It was a rude awakening for them to subsequently appear in the "Furryfans" comic.

I still have no clue as to why that book was produced. I haven't had as much as Email contact with Shawnin well over a year, so I doubt I will ever really know.

I stated previously that Shawn had burned friends of his in that comic - Since then I spent most of my 14 hour workday thinking about that, and now I am convinced I was wrong. The people who appear in that comic may have thought they were his friends, but in fact never were.

I am fully aware of the fact I may well fit in this category myself.

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“Doodles” is a two-faced piece of cr*p.

And you...

Re: anonymity

Re: anonymity

DaveDaveDave.

Re: DaveDaveDave.

acceptance.

no subject

It takes one to know one....